How long have you been here? Does it really matter?
Posted by editor on January 27, 2012 · 16 Comments
John Devitt
Spend any time in Revelstoke and you’ll be treated with the “local” versus “live here” conversation. Perhaps it will be at a community meeting of some sort, where before each person speaks their view, they will grace the audience with the length of time they have lived in Revelstoke, and if it applies, which generation of their family was born here. “I’m so and so I’ve been here 11 years and this is my opinion.” Then the next person strives to one up the first, “Well I’m so and so and I’ve been here 26 years and this is my more informed opinion.” Finally there’s Grandmaster Flash with his or her black belt in localism, “My grandparents were born here and I’ve lived here all my life and here’s my infallible and incontrovertible opinion and this is the way it will be done if you know what’s good for you.”
On the flip side is when you’re out for a night on the town and start a conversation with a stranger. “Where are you from?” you ask. “Oh, I’m a local, I moved here in October.” It’s mind numbing, as most “isms” are.
This attitude of extremes embraced by “locals” ultimately alienates the people in the middle. They’re the ones who when asked will say, “No, I’m not local, I’ve just lived here for six years.” Unfortunately, despite often being the ones contributing the most to the community, they are also made to feel the most unwelcome and have their efforts denigrated. These are the folks creating new events, enhancing the arts and culture scene or creating unique and interesting new businesses. They’re the ones who are bringing a richness of experience to Revelstoke and helping rejuvenate this vibrant community.
I had a great example of localism thrust at me while I was out just the other night. I was enjoying a pint and watching a snow video when a “local” asked me where I was from. I told him I’d lived here for a number of years, but that wasn’t what he meant. Growing more and more confused to his pressing questions I finally replied, “Um, Canada?” This still didn’t satisfy him, “No, I mean where are you from? Look at your arms, look at that arm hair, you must have some spic or wop in you.” I always thought I was the only one who noticed that I’ve got some pretty furry and stick-like arms. Apparently not.
It was at this time that a series of random events ended the conversation and sent this racist young local out the door. I turned to my friend who was working behind the bar and we had a good laugh and a chat about localism. The fact was between us we’d done more and contributed more in the past couple of years to better the community than that guy probably had his entire life. Unfortunately, if you weren’t born here, often times your contributions mean nothing. Another “non-local” friend of mine once said that you shouldn’t consider yourself a local until you’ve lived here 10 years. Well I say bullshit to that.
With the amount of transition we see in this town, I propose a new definition for local. If you’ve attended a fundraising event in Revelstoke that supports a community group, you’re a local. If you’ve waved and said hello to a stranger on the street, then you’re a local. If you’ve helped someone push his or her car out of the snow after a big dump, then you’re a local. If you’ve been sun burnt sitting on a patio watching beach volleyball all day, then you’re a local. If you’ve been part of a committee or group that has attempted to do anything in the community, you’re a local. If you’ve donated a can of food to the Revelstoke Food Bank, then you’re a local. What should we add to this new, improved definition Revelstoke?
I propose that instead of dwelling on the differences we focus on similarities. Hey, do you like snow? I like snow too. I love the way it looks when it’s falling past the streetlights at night. I love the way it swooshes up into my face when I’m shredding at RMR. I love the way it goes “fwoomp” when I fall into it to bust a mad snow angel. Hey, do you hate snow? I hate snow too. I hate how it gets brown and crunchy when it’s dirty. I hate how I have to shovel it 3 times a day. I hate how the plow pushes it all onto my lawn so it doesn’t melt until July. I hate how it sometimes blocks the reception on my satellite dish. Jeez, see how much we have in common?!
I agree John this ” what is and isn’t local” stuff is nuts. I call Revelstoke my home and I believe that if you love and respect it you should call it home too. I appreciate all the things newcomer have done with our town simply because they wish to improve this wonderful little community!
Nice one John! Totally agree with your definition of local and sure glad Meike agrees since there would be a disturbance in the force as we live together
. I practice alternative introductory conversation to the “where are you from” dialogue… trying to give out the best info possible with respect.. But I’d say there are a few ways of looking at the local question and reasons why someone asks and ponders. They are all very different. I am speaking generally and not specifically about that hilarious case at the bar.
1. People in any tourist friendly or thriving town tend to ask that + the almighty weather question first as it is the easiest to move into subsequent dialogue about synergies. Its the big tie that binds us (especially Canucks) or separates us, and engages great Q-A. Everyone wants to quickly get the root of the best place on the earth to live and their reasoning, with the greatest folk of course! Most visitors here are envious correct?
2. People want to make new personal and professional friends. People in Revelstoke LOVE to network and are historically driven for opportunities. The city is built on this CANDO attitude. I think we are really open minded folk who are possibly looking for some deeper level of commitment past the stereotypical one season or weekend wham bam thank you mam! Nothing against seasoners or tourists who are possibly the most important… these people are appreciated when they work, play or party hard, and respect is given (financially or physically) and as simple as you state “fundraising… to just waving”. But it takes years to build the understanding of individual capabilities, goals and desires as we all know with balanced lifestyles of social and individual activities in our mountain playground. This is getting way easier with our connectivity and abilities to adapt but we are cultivating the chosen few while hopefully LOVING the visitors – so they show respect back to us and our playground.
3. That freakshow who frigged with you at the bar and anyone else who looks at you with negative emotion based on either a bandwagon jump to Revelstoke last month or the decision to find the secret stash decades ago. Those often greedy people are close minded and they will not thrive well with friends in our luscious and open community. But i imagine under sober circumstances you can even engage in meaningful dialogue with that dood. We all deserve something better… we all deserve a better place to live.
I am from Toronto or Canada or Switzerland, but chosen this place to live now longer and invest money, time and energy like we all desire to forge a very strong community. That nugget was so exciting to discover 10 years or 1 year ago… and now with the goal to nurture with you man!
Thank you for this article John! I just would like to follow up with a comment we received on one of our videos on You Tube… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKJfCYD0s2k
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well first off i must say iam disappointed in my Provence it is bullshit that a french pig has any thing to do with any thing out west the enchanted forest and surrounding property is a revelstoke spot and should be for revelstoke peps to run it and or work there not french speaking pigs go home you are not wanted out west and spread the word in frogs ville that we do not like the french in the west you might say that is not true cuz folks are nice well that’s cuz they aer not from here
miketory1 6 months ago
Hi,
Veronika here from SkyTrek. Our business is actually owned and operated by long-time Revelstoke locals. Most of our staff members are also local; however, we are proud to employ an amazing team of individuals from around the world who bring unique skills and fresh perspectives to our growing operation.
Have a great day!
SkyTrekAP 6 months ago
I like your article on “Whose Local”. I agree with you; if you have done something for the area, you are part of it.
In Rural Nova Scotia, if you were not born there or related to someone who was born there, you are ” A Sider” ! Meaning you are an “Outsider”.
Our son John, Frostbite Photography, has lived in Revy for several years. Does this qualify us as locals?
It would be nice!
I agree with Veronika’s comments. The youtube she referred to is very harsh and poorly written and, should be erased.
The Very Best to All in REVY, local or not !
Good for you, John. I was at Okanagan College the other day during a tutor training session and there were around 10 young people eager to contribute to the welfare of our town and its residents. They may have arrived recently but I’d call them local.
I would propose a different point of view to take about “locals”. It is an inaccurate word to use because you’re right: anyone who lives here permanently is a local. But you know, and I know, that in this city’s vocabulary, it means people who’ve lived here for a “long” time. People who have a different point of view than those who have lived here a shorter length of time.
I can see how you’d think that those people might be trying to be more “right” when they are saying how long they’ve lived here. But how I see it (especially in community meetings) is that they are identifying themselves as different stakeholders. Somebody who’s lived here for 56 years will usually have different views for their community than somebody who’s lived here for 3 years. It doesn’t mean that one person is more right. But both people should be taken into account.
In your article, you are still not considering them at all. You say that the people “in the middle” are the ones contributing the most to the community. By “most” you mean creating new events, changing arts and culture, creating new businesses. So the people in the middle are changing Revelstoke in the ways they want to see it change. (I’ve got no problem with that- if it weren’t for these people, I wouldn’t have wanted to move back to Revelstoke). Revelstoke is changing rapidly, and has it occurred to you that for people that have enjoyed a certain lifestyle for generations, this change is not always for the better?
You are ignoring the fact that “locals” contribute to this community too. In ways that perhaps you don’t value, but in ways that they value. They shop locally, have a knowledge of the history of the area, participate in events, run dependable businesses, and have a specific culture.
Revelstoke clearly has differing groups of people with differing values. 1) People with a long history who enjoy their lifestyle and aren’t comfortable with the amount of changes that don’t mesh with their values 2) People who’ve moved here in the in the past few years and who want to see Revelstoke change to meet their values 3) tourists etc who want to have fun and don’t care (as much) about Revelstoke in the long term. All three of these groups of people need to be respected and valued.
As an aside, I think you’re being awfully defensive about being asked where you’re from. Its a conversation starter that’s pretty well accepted the world over. Asking where you live now is a whole different conversation. As is striking up a conversation about things you might have in common. I’m sorry you ran into someone who was racist, but those people live everywhere.
PS I am a champion local: my great great grandfather moved here over a century ago and I’m proud of that!
Theresa, you’re a peach and it was nice to hear your point of view. I’m glad to have met you and anyone else who is nice to me after I answer the question “where are you from?” with “A small town in Alberta”. I think also though, I’ve run into more of the crowd John’s talking about unfortunately, especially earlier on when I first moved to Revelstoke. As a result, I think many people who have moved here to make a life have become defensive over time. Especially when many of us have tried to become steadfast reliable contributors to this beautiful place. I also think, because of the influx of people to Revy in winter, this does become a more sensitive issue.
Maybe as we continue to reside here and start our own businesses and contribute to the community, we will be lucky enough to make more acquaintance with people such as yourself and be more accepted in Revelstoke. I myself, am looking forward to that day, as I do notice- it is getting a bit easier every year.
Until then, thanks to all the “longtime locals” who built this place to what it was today. I will continue to contribute and add a new shine to this place, if those who fancy it will support me.
This is really interesting! I was a Revy local but now I live in Japan. When I go back for visits, I don’t feel like a local anymore because I’ve been away for a couple of years. I now consider myself to be a local of my Japanese city. However, I cannot vote here unless I give up my Canadian citizenship and must carry a special ID for foreigners…and everyone always asks me where I’m from and expect the answer to be a foreign country. By the sounds of it, I’d much rather be in the local limbo in Revy. (^-^;
As an urban nomad, I became defensive about the “where are you from” question when we moved to western Canada and I realized that telling people I was born in Ottawa was a big mistake. One of the nice things about Revelstoke is that for me, when asked the question posed by Revelstokers–whether long-term or newcomer–has been one of friendly curiosity rather than a sly lead into a put-down as John experienced in the bar. Sadly, racists abound the world over as do those fearful of body hair. I don’t think that’s what most people are getting at when they ask where you’re from. Mostly it’s just an ice-breaker in a culture where we don’t have rituals of introduction.
Today over lunch we got talking to a Korean couple, Joanne and John, from Calgary. The conversation turned to difference: urban/rural, Asia/Canada, and big city/small city. We agreed that diversity–in people, culture, traditions, religion, food– is what gives life its interest and excitement. They left Seoul to find a wider world; we still travel to do that, in keeping with a lifetime of being able to live and work in different places. It was a delightful conversation, and it started with Are you from here?
I love the fact that Revy has people with deep roots here, has a population of elders who lend gravitas to every gathering. And I love it that new people are coming to live and work here, with their kids and dogs and sleds and bikes. I particularly like right now the influx of Australians who come for the skiing but whose general exuberance adds high notes to commerce as they work usually in service jobs and exude a cheeriness that may at times be little more than professional perkiness but is nonetheless welcome. And it’s amazing and encouraging that we have a small population of Americans who come for various reasons and often stay, bringing traditions of deeply democratic expectation and sharply honed skills in various areas. I hope too Revy will be able to hold on to the small group of Asians who have come so far from home, and to a culture radically different from their own, especially in terms of sociability. Canadians are a rather aloof lot, and I often wonder if we don’t appear to newcomers (not just to Revelstoke) as a standoffish to the point of paranoia.
I would like to add to the list of people who live here; apparently residents can be defined in just three groups….there are others… I met an elderly gentleman while out for a walk the other day, a born and bred local (I asked!). He was very excited about the popularity the ski resort was having and that they recently had had a day with 3,000 visitors. He said this was good for Revelstoke and he was embracing the change. He stated that Revelstoke needed a new viable industry other than Forestry and CP.
And there are people, like myself, who are not trying to change the town, but moved here (just over four years ago) because of what they saw when they came. A friendly, welcoming and exciting place to live.
Not all newcomers are created equal, not all newcomers are as positive and supportive of productive change in Revelstoke as those of you who have made comments on this article. Although I do not doubt your love of Revelstoke, I do doubt your commitment to the town and its future. Some people don’t share the same love and respect of Revelstoke because they do not intend to be locals or permanent residents. They are here to “whoop it up” for the time being, soak up everything they can of Revelstoke, and then leave our hopefully still beautiful town in their dust!
My parents lived and worked here for over 30 years. Having recently retired, they are no longer residents of Revelstoke yet when visiting . I was born and raised here, I moved away for 5 years and yet this town lured me back in! Typically, I get defensive about who IS and IS NOT a local when I hear someone bragging about elements of the City of Revelstoke that they are seemingly taking responsibility for….and yet their information is incorrect painting false portrait of the community. After living in Nanaimo for 3 years, I never referred to myself as a local nor would that title be welcomed by the “locals”. I don’t think this gripe is specific to Revelstoke itself rather it’s a community culture found in small towns.
Personally, I think most “locals” are rather defensive of that title due to the fact that residents of Revelstoke who have recently moved here ( either 1 year, 3 or 6 years ago ) have the potential to move once again. Leaving us TRUE locals to keep Revelstoke a thriving community that will still be prosperous when the next wave of newcomers soon to consider themselves “locals” arrive. I love my town, I always will, and I will always be a local….and proud of it
Thank you everyone for your comments. It’s nice to see so much feedback on this topic. In the past few days I’ve had many people approach me and to say thank you for giving them a voice with this story. The things discussed here are widely felt in the community and we should all work to assert our voice. As I mention in the story, instead of deifying or vilifying any group of people we should be looking for commonalities between us all.
Definition of “local” #77: If you participate in the process, you’re a local.
Well John, If you want to change opinions in our town, you should try not to “alienate” your audience.I can say that I am a seasoned local, been here 29 years and counting, but I do not possess the opinion that you suggest all us born and bred locals have. I have to pay more to live here now, and things are not as quiet as they once were, but I embrace the change that is happening in my little town. I have never picked fights at the ski hill or in restaurants with people calling themselves locals, and have made some very good new friends with others, but you have now changed my opinion.
You have put a face on what is a bad taste in the mouths of the people you are slandering. To roll all long-time locals into a pile of racist rednecks is unacceptable. what else is unacceptable is to say that we don’t provide for the community. I work in a local business, my family owns a local business, and i give to local charities, but I guess I must be the only one.
I suggest you add to the community yourself, more-so than I have see you do. So far calling down the long time residents is not a contribution, and from what I have read payroll at City Hall agrees with me.
Somebody needs to take a chill pill
I love what Leslie Savage wrote! I think it sums up so much of the greatness of Revelstoke! Especially the way that different groups of people contribute to our community!
And yes, there are so many different groups of people here as Anita points out as well. But the friction really is between the “new” locals and the “old” locals. And I completely agree with John who says that we need to look for our commonalities. But that isn’t the end of the story. The fact is, there are some major fundamental differences out there, and ignoring them does not solve the problems that they have been causing. Neither, as Josh points out, does alienating anybody. We need to recognize our differences and work for mutually beneficial solutions in a respectful way.
The main problem with this article, is that while it proposes a solution to the problem, it does so in a way that is completely disrespectful to the “old” locals. In addition to the insulting things you say about the people who were born and raised here, you’re basically saying: “you are wrong to think and feel the way you do. You should change.” That attitude is not constructive or respectful.
I think that this discussion string is awesome. Hopefully people who are in the group of “new” locals will read it and recognize that the “old” locals aren’t just a bunch of haters who don’t contribute. And hopefully the “old” locals will read it and appreciate some of the great things that the “new” locals bring to town and recognize that- just like in the past- some of these “new” locals will stay and contribute to this community until they are “old” locals.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
-Martin Luther King
i totally agree with theresa camozzi. i too was born here as was my father (who is 85) and his mother ..we are a pioneer family…and very proud of it…also we have 5 generations born and stayed in revelstoke…with the last 4 generations still living here…i am a pioneer local along with 6 other families